Curse

The Prince · Nov 04, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

And in the meantime while you're all complaining about how hard the Monster A.I. is, I'm getting my second character through the game. I'm already at Vabbi now with the second one. Yes I play too much but I really can't see why some of you think it's so difficult. There's some issues with henchie/hero A.I. that needs to be fixed but nothing that can't be worked around.

"if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies to the A.I.

its not a greater challenge-its just more frustrating. its also annoying that people solo the whole game, im a huge fan of PUGs and actually interacting with other players. its infinitely annoying to go into higher lvl areas or towns and see everyone henching it and snubbing their noses at players looking to form a group
"LOLZ n00b y form group, HERO FTW cuzz u n00b are teh sux"

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 04, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prince

"if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies to the A.I.

its not a greater challenge-its just more frustrating. its also annoying that people solo the whole game, im a huge fan of PUGs and actually interacting with other players. its infinitely annoying to go into higher lvl areas or towns and see everyone henching it and snubbing their noses at players looking to form a group
"LOLZ n00b y form group, HERO FTW cuzz u n00b are teh sux"

Why is it annoying that people want to play with henchies instead of people? What's it to you? That's fine if you like socially interacting with others but why care so much how others are playing the game?

And not everyone who "solos" the game are the way you just described them. In fact, I see more people who are trying to form PUGS call people noobs than "solo" people. They just grab their henchies and go. But do I say people who play in PUGS are snot nosed kids? Of course not. That would be making a stupid generalization.

The Prince · Nov 04, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Why is it annoying that people want to play with henchies instead of people? What's it to you? That's fine if you like socially interacting with others but why care so much how others are playing the game?

And not everyone who "solos" the game are the way you just described them. In fact, I see more people who are trying to form PUGS call people noobs than "solo" people. They just grab their henchies and go. But do I say people who play in PUGS are snot nosed kids? Of course not. That would be making a stupid generalization.

If my previous post implied that i was accusing you of making that generalization, i apologize, it wasnt intended. i just find it hard to form pick up groups with balanced parties in NF, and its not really as enjoyable to play the PvE campaign story missions solo IMO. post game play-i solo a lot, mostly bc i like to collect items/armor, which besides the negative manner in which it has altered basic PvE play, has severely diminished my post-campaign play. i realize the AI update has spawned a whole slew of threads, but I still maintain that its done more harm than good for GW as a whole.

Blackest Rose · Nov 04, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Sid - if you're already well on your way to getting your second toon through NF then 2 things.

1. Wow - well done, good going
2. You're not the average player

The average player may have a much tougher time playing through the game than you think with the "new" monster/hench AI

Only a small proportion (a few % I'd guess) are now through the game - they're not the majority of players.

Only time will tell - are they finished with AI updates? I hope not.

Lagg · Nov 04, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

A few of my guildmates have already completed the game. I didn't have the time to go along with them nor wanted to rush through it without taking my time (olololo rush more ch00b), so I've been lagging at least a couple of missions behind the entire time, playing either with henchies or with a few other straggling guildies.

Now that I'm in the Realm of Torment and the really harcore "rushers" are done with the game, they're coming back to help me out as well.

Well guess what?

Since the AI was changed, they're finding it a LOT more difficult too.

In a sense, ArenaNet is too LATE with the changing of their AI, as the really hardcore players (the ones that had to be slowed down) are ALREADY DONE with the game (while the old aggro system was still in effect). The less hardcore to average players are now only either getting the game or reaching the last missions. They are the ones getting slowed down and frustrated.

The Prince · Nov 04, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

If they leave the A.I. in its current state, I'll have to reconsider any future purchases from Anet. while its possible to beat the game quickly, ive done it, it isnt nearly as fun to chase enemies around. I had a lot of fun taking on huge mobs in factions, and with the old AI i enjoyed the party dynamics of aggro control. it can be argued over and over that the new ai simulates more accurately playing against human opponents, but the fact is human opponents dont come in mobs of 20-30 and they aren't level 24-30. ever. IMHO they should revert to the old A.I. and think of a new policy towards farming-which is obviously the main victim of the update (im not saying farming isnt possible, thats shortsighted and untrue, im making the point that the fun a lot of people derived from farming is now gone).

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 04, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Prince

If my previous post implied that i was accusing you of making that generalization, i apologize, it wasnt intended.

No problem. Just a misunderstanding.

Ok, even though I find PVE to be a lot more fun and challenging and not at all too difficult with this new A.I., I do hope that they do some major improvements to henchman and Hero A.I. to make things easier. I know some of you, dont use henchies/heroes and still find it difficult, but I have to say that most PUGS are horrible. So no matter how easy PVE is, they will always make things very very difficult.

lunksunkunk · Nov 04, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

I sometimes think Tahlkoro is spending way too much time flirting with mhenlo whenever i have both of them in my party. Dunkoro must be pissed off as all hell since hes forced to heal everyone else, while mhenlo decides to heal always at the last minute when everyone is at 20-30 health, most of the time too late anways and he just wastes nrg.

Tahlkoro is my protector monk, but she obviously doesnt know how to use reversal of fortune, instead to spams PS over all of us, when not all of us need it.

It seems Mhenlo and Tahlkoro have a thing going for each. Both dont know what the hell their doing, and they spend way too much much time running around playing tag with each other whenever enemy mobs are being aggroed.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 04, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunksunkunk

I sometimes think Tahlkoro is spending way too much time flirting with mhenlo whenever i have both of them in my party. Dunkoro must be pissed off as all hell since hes forced to heal everyone else, while mhenlo decides to heal always at the last minute when everyone is at 20-30 health, most of the time too late anways and he just wastes nrg.

Tahlkoro is my protector monk, but she obviously doesnt know how to use reversal of fortune, instead to spams PS over all of us, when not all of us need it.

It seems Mhenlo and Tahlkoro have a thing going for each. Both dont know what the hell their doing, and they spend way too much much time running around playing tag with each other whenever enemy mobs are being aggroed.

Patient: "It hurts when I do this, doctor"
Doctor: "Then stop doing that"

I know it's not a solution, but if the heroes are spamming a skill at the wrong times and screwing things up then dont place that skill in the skillbar. There will never be an A.I. that's smart enough to use any skillbar in the most efficient manner. So you'll just have to adjust to the A.I. instead of making the A.I. adjust to the skillbar you give it.

YunSooJin · Nov 04, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Patient: "It hurts when I do this, doctor"
Doctor: "Then stop doing that"

I know it's not a solution, but if the heroes are spamming a skill at the wrong times and screwing things up then dont place that skill in the skillbar. There will never be an A.I. that's smart enough to use any skillbar in the most efficient manner. So you'll just have to adjust to the A.I. instead of making the A.I. adjust to the skillbar you give it.

I guess he doesn't get it..
*whoosh* right over his head.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 04, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I guess he doesn't get it..
*whoosh* right over his head.

Who doesnt get what? If that guy was making a joke, it was still illustrating the point that the A.I. is bad. So I'm not sure what your point was.

reetkever · Nov 05, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Well A.I. is back to what it was in Factions/Prophecies (except for the AoE running away).

But now my whole party is actually getting attacked again, instead of just the monk, and I can finally kill groups again without getting a Death penalty of 60% first

The A.I. is NOT the same as it was when Nightfall came out (first enemy the A.I. saw got attacked), but they don't spike 1 target now either. I'm very happy, thanks alot A-net, I can finally play the game again

The only problem now is that henchies/heroes interrupt their own spells, but I guess that'll be fixed soon as well (As Gaile said if I recall correctly).

and again, thanks A-net, and sorry for my complaining, but I'm just not so pro in this game that I can kill 6 lvl 26 monsters that spike 1 target after another with 70 energy, skills/melee that does over a 100% more damage than I could possibly do, way more armor and lightning reflexes.

IAL · Nov 05, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Why is it annoying that people want to play with henchies instead of people? What's it to you? That's fine if you like socially interacting with others but why care so much how others are playing the game?

And not everyone who "solos" the game are the way you just described them. In fact, I see more people who are trying to form PUGS call people noobs than "solo" people. They just grab their henchies and go. But do I say people who play in PUGS are snot nosed kids? Of course not. That would be making a stupid generalization.

In short i think when people actually want to play an interactive online RPG, they do want to interact with other players. Making it possible for older players who know the ropes to hench their way through the game making it to a single player gma emore or less is destructive for the game and the community in general.

YunSooJin · Nov 05, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Who doesnt get what? If that guy was making a joke, it was still illustrating the point that the A.I. is bad. So I'm not sure what your point was.

Fine, I'll bite.

He was illustrating a basic problem with the AI - the fact that they spend too much kiting at the expense of hard heals. You responded with a message that essentially said 'stop using the wrong skills'. This is ridiculous and off the mark by several points.

1. The poster was illustrating a basic problem with AI. Not with skills. His post had nothing to do with how henchies used skills. Therefore, your post was essentially responding to an argument that was never made.
2. Heroes have been consistently advertised as customizable henchies by ANET. What's the point of having customizable heroes that can't use skills properly? I think I can safely conclude that the onus is on ANET to fix the henchies, not us.

Any other questions?

Sasuke The Betrayer · Nov 05, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

The only problem I have is with the Water Elementalist Monsters in the Realm of Torment (I forgot their names) but they seem to bunch up in 3. ALL my henchies and heros go down to like 10-30% hp because of those damn Deep Freezes and those annoying ass mind freeze spam.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 05, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Fine, I'll bite.

He was illustrating a basic problem with the AI - the fact that they spend too much kiting at the expense of hard heals. You responded with a message that essentially said 'stop using the wrong skills'. This is ridiculous and off the mark by several points.

1. The poster was illustrating a basic problem with AI. Not with skills. His post had nothing to do with how henchies used skills. Therefore, your post was essentially responding to an argument that was never made.
2. Heroes have been consistently advertised as customizable henchies by ANET. What's the point of having customizable heroes that can't use skills properly? I think I can safely conclude that the onus is on ANET to fix the henchies, not us.

Any other questions?

Wow you dont know how to read. I didnt say that there was a problem with skills, I said there was a problem with the A.I. using skills efficiently. The guy said the monk was spamming Protective Spirit too much at the wrong times. So I told him to try a different skill because the A.I. isnt capable of using certain skills correctly. And isnt using skills part of the A.I.?

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

1. The poster was illustrating a basic problem with AI. Not with skills. His post had nothing to do with how henchies used skills. Therefore, your post was essentially responding to an argument that was never made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunksunkunk

Tahlkoro is my protector monk, but she obviously doesnt know how to use reversal of fortune, instead to spams PS over all of us, when not all of us need it.

So you were saying? Learn to read, Mmmkay?

YunSooJin · Nov 05, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Wow you dont know how to read. I didnt say that there was a problem with skills, I said there was a problem with the A.I. using skills efficiently. The guy said the monk was spamming Protective Spirit too much at the wrong times. So I told him to try a different skill because the A.I. isnt capable of using certain skills correctly. And isnt using skills part of the A.I.?

So you were saying? Learn to read, Mmmkay?

Yeah, just leave protective spirit out so when you meet a pseudo spike or a boss you have no protection?

My statement still stands. Your suggestion is laughable at best and retarded at worst.

EDIT: Players shouldn't need to be subjected to idiocy because of ANET's programming. We shouldn't have to use a half retarded work around in order to play the game. ANET needs to read these problems and see what they can do about it.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 05, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Yeah, just leave protective spirit out so when you meet a pseudo spike or a boss you have no protection?

My statement still stands. Your suggestion is laughable at best and retarded at worst.

EDIT: Players shouldn't need to be subjected to idiocy because of ANET's programming. We shouldn't have to use a half retarded work around in order to play the game. ANET needs to read these problems and see what they can do about it.

Nice backtracking. You cant even admit that you were wrong? That just proves you're just here to argue.

And I'm not saying that we shouldnt be able to use PS at all, but at this point of time, the A.I. just isnt smart enough to use it properly so it's best to leave it out and use another damage mitagation skills that the A.I. can handle. That's just playing it smart.

The Prince · Nov 05, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

PS isnt the only problem. if the monks are too busy running around, and you have one using a spell that has an activation time and is expensive, like Heal Party, it probalby wont get used. while Heal Party is a poor example because there are better spells to take, my point is that when you put skills on the skill bar they're usually there for a reason and if they dont get used when they are needed that isnt the players fault for not placing the right skill, but rather the A.I. for not realizing it needs to stand still and heal at least a little bit. I sympathize with Anet because programming the hero A.I. must be immensely difficult, but still, its something that has to be fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Ok, even though I find PVE to be a lot more fun and challenging and not at all too difficult with this new A.I., I do hope that they do some major improvements to henchman and Hero A.I. to make things easier. I know some of you, dont use henchies/heroes and still find it difficult, but I have to say that most PUGS are horrible. So no matter how easy PVE is, they will always make things very very difficult.

I think PUGS are a necessary part of a MMORPG. Otherwise, how are you supposed to get to know other players in game? Without PUGS, They might as well make the Campaign a single player affair, with outposts being used only ffor trading/buying armor/weapons, and PVP the only real player interaction while actually playing (as opposed to just chatting). Diminishing the appeal of PUGS diminishes the point of playing MMOs IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAL

In short i think when people actually want to play an interactive online RPG, they do want to interact with other players. Making it possible for older players who know the ropes to hench their way through the game making it to a single player gma emore or less is destructive for the game and the community in general.

/agreed. way better explanation than my own statement.

lunksunkunk · Nov 05, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I guess he doesn't get it..
*whoosh* right over his head.

lol, its called sarcasm along with a hint of a little humor. i think it went *whoosh* over ur head on that one. before u start retorting, read between the lines a little.

And of course, i threw out PS the first time i had her in my party, but the point is that i shouldnt have to. Why should i have to find a work-around for a bug that honestly should never be there in the first place? Thats like saying well the A/C in ur car doesnt work, so be sure not to drive during the summer or roll down the windows and wear a tank-top everywhere.